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View Full Version : Attacking the TE Side against a 4-4



CoachSchelb
01-02-2013, 02:55 PM
When you guys face a 4-4 what do you like to the TE side?


..W........M.........S..............$

......E......T........T......E
.......T...G...C...G...T....Y
...H............Q...............H

.................F

jsanny
01-03-2013, 12:20 AM
24 Gut, 34 Ct Gut, 32 Power, 83 Belly XB, 21 Jet Sweep, & 21 Rocket

Rich Erdelyi
01-04-2013, 12:19 PM
You don't say where the corner is aligned. Most teams align him inside over the TE against us so that's what I'll assume. We would run Belly Slide XB which I discussed in another answer. We would run Jet XX with power blocking and the TE arcing for $ to widen the hole. We would run Jet Sweep with PST & TE combo blocking the 7 to the SILB, Wing on the $ and PSG pulls for the C who will be the alley player. If the 3 tech is a headache we would run Jet Sucker with FB the BC...OC blks back on the 2, BSG guts around the OC for M, PSG pulls influencing the 3, PST blocks 1st LB from C or the SILB, TE shuts off the 7, wing arcs influencing the $ wide then blocks the Corner so the FB can cut off his block downfield. Key coaching points QB must reverse pivot 180 and give the midline to the FB who must hug the fold block and stay away from the 3 tech. We would run Rocket Sweep with the TE on the 7, wing on the $ and pull the PST for C and PSG for SILB.

We would motion to or line up in trips to that flank and run Down Keep Pass. PST down on the 3, PSG pull & block 7, FB has 1st LB from C(basically B gap),TE runs a seam 10-12 banana out, wing runs arrow to the flat 3 yds deep, flanker runs a takeoff. 3 deep cannot cover the flats vs. trips. We would run the Down play with my PSG kicking out $. The TE blocks the 7. This validates the Down Keep Pass. We would also run Jet and Rocket Down if my TE can handle the 7 and if the $ is flying outside defending the Jet or Rocket Sweep. You can keep the $ in conflict with these plays.

We would go tackles over end over to get the corner to widen and pick on the $ with Buck Sweep and Down. We would plus the FB and run Jet Sweep and Jet Lead to the long side. If they roll the secondary we would attack the short side with Jet, Buck and QB sweep.

Rich Erdelyi
Carnegie Mellon University

rpetrie
01-04-2013, 11:53 PM
Most 44 teams we play walk their Strong OLB ($) up on our WB to force the sweep tighter...If they kept him walked off like you have it diagramed I'd run Buck sweep all day.

CoachSchelb
01-05-2013, 12:12 AM
What do you like when they walk that OLB up on the LOS?

We see more of the #2 off the LOS and playing wider to force our Rocket to go vertical instead of getting to the edge.

With that said we are looking hard at adding in Bucksweep because of that alignment we are seeing so much of.

rpetrie
01-05-2013, 07:07 PM
What do you like when they walk that OLB up on the LOS?

We see more of the #2 off the LOS and playing wider to force our Rocket to go vertical instead of getting to the edge.

With that said we are looking hard at adding in Bucksweep because of that alignment we are seeing so much of.

TO TE/WB SIDE
Power Sweep (FB Kick) is a nice play, and we will work Strong HB formations and run Belly...but we will still attack with Buck but work on it hitting tighter...particularly if they are taking away the C-gap with the DE by alignment. If they play him head up we will work Down and see if we can kick him out. If he is trying to cross our TE's face we will work Buck or Down Bounce...a variation in which we block it like sweep on front-side but kick the LB instead of the DE. We will also work G-Trap 1 hole wider as most of the time there is a natural hole in the B-gap if you don't want to go strong with the backfield and use Belly. Some might say just fold the WB inside but IMO it works best with Jet/Rocket Motion and we haven't run those plays over the past 3-4 seasons.

kylem56
01-07-2013, 12:54 AM
vs. that front to the TE side with a 3 & 7 tech:

- Belly (TE outside releases to outside LB, G & T X block)
- Trap behind Jet/Rocket/Buck motion
- Buck-Sweep (TE uses evasive footwork, his footwork is the key to the whole play vs. a 7 tech)
- Jet/Rocket with offset FB to TE side, have the TE block the 7 tech down
- FB Wedge on 1st sound
-trade the TE and see how they respond to that

scoultis
01-07-2013, 07:38 PM
I know Tubby's first answer to a 4-4 w/ a 7 technique is to increase the TE's split from 3 feet to 5-6 feet.

Now, that 7 tech has a decision to make. If he wants to keep aligning inside shade of the TE and move out, THEN RUN DOWN AND TRAP HIM!

If the 7 tech decides not to widen, block down on him with the TE and run outside (bucksweep).

-Sean Coultis

JG78
01-07-2013, 08:53 PM
It isn't to the TE side, but I like the Inside Veer to the left. LG and LT have blocking angles on the DT and LB. Read the DE. I would certainly try running it with the WB in motion (or maybe twins) and our HB (set behind the OT in a traditional Wing-T formation) sealing for the QB.

Note: We run the IV/OV as a double option with our best runner at QB. Best case scenario we get our HB and WB on the same side to block for him off the mesh.

To the TE side, I like the FB trap and Buck Sweep. Some other things would depend on how well I felt my OG matched up with the 3 tech. (or how we was playing us) and my TE vs. the 7 tech.

CoachScaife
01-16-2013, 09:19 AM
I know Tubby's first answer to a 4-4 w/ a 7 technique is to increase the TE's split from 3 feet to 5-6 feet.

Now, that 7 tech has a decision to make. If he wants to keep aligning inside shade of the TE and move out, THEN RUN DOWN AND TRAP HIM!

If the 7 tech decides not to widen, block down on him with the TE and run outside (bucksweep).

-Sean Coultis


+1 for this!

We had teams that wanted to line up in a 4-4 and would walk that DE out as far as our TE would go up to about 5 yards. We split him and put the Wingback in the space created by the "nasty" split and ran belly all night.

CoachSchelb
01-16-2013, 11:34 AM
+1 for this!

We had teams that wanted to line up in a 4-4 and would walk that DE out as far as our TE would go up to about 5 yards. We split him and put the Wingback in the space created by the "nasty" split and ran belly all night.

Coach, how were you blocking Belly against that look with a "nasty" split TE?

CoachScaife
01-16-2013, 01:31 PM
Coach,

From what we experienced teams would do one of two things against our "nasty" split TE. 1.) they would let their DE line up in a 5 Technique and put their OLB down as the EMOL outside the TE. 2.) Have the DE line up head up the TE and put the OLB over the top of the WB 3-4 yards off the LOS.

In scenario one we would have our SG and ST X or Y block the #1 & #3 defenders based upon the alignment of #1. And our WB would lead through on the ILB. The TE would release hard inside and climb to the FS. The EMOL never made the play. I think this year we are going to run a belly sweep or option to take advantage of a team that might have a EMOL who can catch our FB, but that is for another day.

In scenario two we had our SG and ST would again X or Y block #1 & #3, but this time the #3 is a LB instead of on the LOS. Different block but again doable. If they were stunting the #3 guy, we checked out into Rocket Sweep and tossed it outside of him and ran for days.

It wasn't perfect, but we did gain over 1200 on the belly alone this season.

CoachSchelb
01-16-2013, 02:35 PM
Coach,

From what we experienced teams would do one of two things against our "nasty" split TE. 1.) they would let their DE line up in a 5 Technique and put their OLB down as the EMOL outside the TE. 2.) Have the DE line up head up the TE and put the OLB over the top of the WB 3-4 yards off the LOS.

In scenario one we would have our SG and ST X or Y block the #1 & #3 defenders based upon the alignment of #1. And our WB would lead through on the ILB. The TE would release hard inside and climb to the FS. The EMOL never made the play. I think this year we are going to run a belly sweep or option to take advantage of a team that might have a EMOL who can catch our FB, but that is for another day.

In scenario two we had our SG and ST would again X or Y block #1 & #3, but this time the #3 is a LB instead of on the LOS. Different block but again doable. If they were stunting the #3 guy, we checked out into Rocket Sweep and tossed it outside of him and ran for days.

It wasn't perfect, but we did gain over 1200 on the belly alone this season.

Coach, can you explain our "Y" blocking scheme?

CoachScaife
01-16-2013, 03:56 PM
We simplified our Belly blocking scheme to a call at the LOS between our G & T. Is we X block we do a "cross block" this is pretty standard wing-t. If we "Y" block we take the G & T and have them basically drive their men apart from one another and what ultimately happens is a "Y" shaping occurs in the lineman's trajectory. To explain it further: the guard attempts to drive his man up to where the midline is, and the Tackle blocks his man up and out of the tackle box. I am sure there are other names for this scheme. But for my hawgs X and Y blocking makes sense so thats what we call it.

trojan
01-18-2013, 11:48 AM
One of my favorite formations, but I really like it against an even front:

......ST..SG..C..TG..TT..TT..TE
.WB............Q......................WB
................FB


If the defense stays in a four man front, without shifting to an under front, there will be a big hole along the LOS. I most often had a wide hole for Down. FB Trap should also go well, without adjustments.

Coach Herron of Camden County (GA) runs the formation like this:

......TE..SG..C..TG..TT..TT..TE
.WB............Q......................WB
................FB

First, at a clinic session, he said that he looks for what the defense does on the weak side, looking for an opening for Belly. Second, by having that second TE on the weak side, he had a couple of things to look at. If the Safety honors the weak side TE as an eligible receiver, it will hold him in the middle and prevent him from cheating down to the strong side. If the Safety did not respect the TE as an eligible receiver, he has a TE and a HB/WB (plus the FB, I suppose) on that side to pick on the CB. **I don't know what kind of passing he did out of that set to the weak side. Can't remember everything.

All of my post does not answer your original question, but part does, and the other part gives you something else to look at. Hopefully.

coachjack2000
01-18-2013, 07:02 PM
We used the second formation a ton in our final game of the year. We had only showed it once before during the season. It is great to shift into it from a base set. It really allows you to see how they are adjusting to the TE and Tackle moving over to the strong side.

The team we were playing was a base 50 with a great NG. We used it to try and force the Nose to slide over our guard (a better match up for us). They didn't so we ran down at the extra bubble.

We always start off looking at how they adjust to the unbalanced side. If they don't, attack strong. If they slide, weakside game. The counter going back weak allows you to pull three linemen :)