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Thread: Opinions wanted: camp

  1. #1
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    Default Opinions wanted: camp

    I coach 7th grade in Ohio. We are allowed ten days of camp in July, with no equipment. The last two years, they cut it down to seven days. This year, it is back up to ten. Our practices will be two hours in duration, with no time set aside for conditioning (I plan to keep everyone moving and busy). The years with seven practices had two and a half hour practices.

    I am going to paste my tentative plan below. I have a couple basic questions that I'd appreciate input on:

    -First, I want to hit the basics hard, like stance, first step, head placement, footwork, etc. I also want to install a large percentage of our plays. The schedule below gives you an idea of how we've done it in the past, which has been successful to a large degree. About half the time most days on fundamentals by position, then about half the time on how to run the plays. Would you agree with that? I have considered doing a full practice on just position basics, then moving on to plays. After visiting the Tom Herman/Dave McDonald camps twice, I've seen them do the split method that I've used in the past. At the Trine camp, they had older, more experienced kids, but they also had the half-pints that I work with. These kids are twelve, so I think that having them run plays keeps them motivated, even if their fundamentals aren't down yet. What do you think?

    -Second, I will be installing Belly Option and Down Option after the camp, as I did last year. My question is this: Should I install the base plays at camp, and add those option plays later, or should I focus on the option plays early in camp due to their potential difficulty?

    FYI: Our numbering is obviously not Delaware numbering. Center's right butt cheek is the 0 hole, guard is the 2 hole, on out to the 8 hole far to the right. Center's left butt cheek is the 1 hole, guard is the 3 hole, and so on to the 9 hole wide left.
    The teen series is the Buck series. 10/11 is FB Trap. 18/19 is Bucksweep. 16/17 is Buck Off Tackle (or Slam?).
    The forty series is the Belly series. 44/45 is Belly to the split side. 40/41 is Tackle Trap.
    The twenty series focuses on Down, so 24/25 is Down.
    Our Pro formation is 100, and Con is 900. We'll do everything at camp out of 100/900 and Red/Blue.


    Please feel free to share your opinions. Let me have the good, the bad, and the ugly. As we all do, I'll ultimately make the final decisions, but I place a great deal of value on the advice of the coaches that post on this board.

    Thank you for your time. As for me, I think I spent more time typing this up than I will spend installing the Buck series...

    Camp
    First day of summer clinic (July 20, 2009):
    • Teen Series (10/11, 18/19, 18/19 Waggle) out of Pro/Con vs.4-4 Defense
    • Start with classroom chalk talk
    • Focus on the “Big Picture” with all players together
    • Indies: position techniques, and installation of buck series plays

    Second day of summer clinic (July 21, 2009):
    • Indies by position
    • Teen Series (10/11, 18/19, 18/19 Waggle) out of Pro/Con vs.4-4 Defense;

    Third day of summer clinic (July 22, 2009):
    • Indies by position
    • Teen series (10/11, 16/17, 18/19, and 18/19 Waggle,)

    Fourth day of summer clinic (July 23, 2009):
    • Indies by position
    • Forty series (40/41 TT, 44/45, 44/45 Keep Pass)

    Fifth day of summer clinic (July 24, 2009):
    • Indies by position
    • Forty series (40/41 TT, 44/45, 44/45 Keep Pass)
    • Down (24/25)
    • Review of Buck Series, Belly Series, and Down

    Sixth day of summer clinic (July 27, 2009):
    • Indies by position
    • Review of Buck Series, Belly Series, and Down vs. 52 Defense (Rules, rules, rules!)
    • Jet Sweep

    Seventh day of summer clinic (July 28, 2009):
    • Indies by position
    • Review of Buck Series, Belly Series, and Down
    • Jet Sweep, and Buck, Belly, and Down Series with Jet motion

    Eighth day of summer clinic (July 29, 2009):
    • Indies by position
    • Review of Buck Series, Belly Series, and Down
    • Rocket Sweep

    Ninth day of summer clinic (July 30, 2009):
    • Indies by position
    • Review of Buck Series, Belly Series, and Down
    • Rocket Sweep, and Buck, Belly, and Down Series with Rocket motion

    Tenth day of summer clinic (July 31, 2009):
    • Indies by position (Skip Indies today?)
    • Review of Buck Series, Belly Series, Down, Rocket, and Jet
    • Jet XX
    wingtcoach.com
    @wingtcoachdon
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  2. #2

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    Coach. Your plan looks good. One quick thought re: jet/rocket/option... You might want to consider rep'ing these plays with your backs very early in your camp. All are timing intensive, and given the age of your players, I would get on this right away. I would also consider Belly/Down Sweep over Option, but this is more of a personal preference than anything else.

  3. #3
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    Coach
    WOW! What age are these athletes again? 12. You have more offense there then I do in my entire attack. I coach varsity athletes who will be competing against schools who have over enrollment of 3000 and not only will we not need that much offense, but we would not do that much because our execution curve would drop significantly. Our scope and sequence of offense is designed base upon a careful analysis of the following criteria and not by series:
    1. What is it going to cost me?
    2. How do I keep it intact when the defense makes an attempt to stop it?
    3. If I can not keep it intact then what are my compliments to counter defensive responses?
    SUMMARY
    1. What is it going to cost me?
    -We like to hang our hat on plays that are non-team in nature and require least amount of reps to make it go. We want our plays to have fundamentals that overlap and not require additional INDY time to perfect.
    2. How do I keep it intact when the defense makes an attempt to stop it?
    -Essentially is the play one in which the defense can force you very easily to go to your compliments or does it allow you room for some simple adjustments and you can still keep running it despite the defensive response. If by simply changing a blocking scheme or formation allows you to continue running that play then that play would be one we would use.
    3. If I can not keep it intact then what are my compliments to counter defensive responses?
    -We know that there are a ton of compliments for a particular play, but are the compliment plays stong enough to be able to run over and over again and if so, then do we need answers for our compliments or are the answers to the compliment simply the original play we had in mind to begin with? In other words all of the plays you choose should be based on making sure they overlap not only based on fundamental skills, but also in answering defensive responses.
    When you look at the scope and sequencing of your offense this way you will find that there is not many plays to install or needed after all.
    FINAL NOTE
    Make sure to implement an equalizer in addition to the above offense. There will come a time when you are going to need it.
    Good Luck
    Coach Wright

  4. Default Offense

    J Wright does a great job of explaining what to teach. My explanation would be.
    1.Teach your base play.
    2.Teach an alternate base play.
    3.Teach a counter off your base play.
    4.Teach a play action pass off your base play.
    Perfect them-perfect them- and then perfect them.
    Chuck Klausing E mail clkb5401@comcast.net

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWright
    WOW!
    Okay, I go to clinics and get playbooks, then want to run about a thousand plays. I'm guilty!

    I do have that desire, but also try to scale things down to improve execution, as you were pointing out. I have two series, including two pass plays.

    I have three plays from the Buck series (actually I listed four, but Buck OT is up for debate). The base play (Bucksweep), the alternate base play (FB Trap), and the counter/PA pass (Waggle).

    In the Belly series, I have the base play (Belly), the alternate base play (Down), the counter (Tackle Trap), and the PA pass (Belly Keep).

    The Jet and Rocket have been big for us, but pretty easy installs. Once they are in, I love to use Jet/Rocket motion with mostly Belly series plays, and then Trap and Waggle. It is a topic for debate, but I don't consider FB Trap with Jet motion or Belly with Rocket motion part of the Jet or Rocket series. Ten guys do the same thing that they do on the "regular" play. Just my opinion.

    I want to include option (Belly and Down)down the road, since the QB and motion back often carry out their option fakes. Why fake what you NEVER run?

    When they get to 8th grade, they'll get another counter off of Down, Down KP, a few more plays from the Power series, and more passing. The varsity only really adds more of a passing attack on top of that. I feel that if I teach the Buck and Belly series well, I've done my part. If I just do Buck OR Belly, then I feel like I've shortchanged them.

    Part of me wants to be a DW guy, and just run toss, trap, counter, and wedge VERY WELL . Part of me wants to run a thousand plays.

    Thank you Dave (RAIDERZ), Coach Wright, and Coach Klausing for the valuable input. I'd love to hear any other contributions! Heaven knows that I need help in the thinkin' department!
    wingtcoach.com
    @wingtcoachdon
    #wingtchat

  6. #6

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    Hi Coach.

    Another small point... you don't have to fake option on Down & Belly... you can fake Keep Pass.

  7. #7

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    Or you can fake belly sweep or Down sweep ... which are easy add on plays.
    Just My Thoughts

    LKelly

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trojan
    Okay, I go to clinics and get playbooks, then want to run about a thousand plays. I'm guilty!

    I do have that desire, but also try to scale things down to improve execution, as you were pointing out. I have two series, including two pass plays.

    I have three plays from the Buck series (actually I listed four, but Buck OT is up for debate). The base play (Bucksweep), the alternate base play (FB Trap), and the counter/PA pass (Waggle).

    In the Belly series, I have the base play (Belly), the alternate base play (Down), the counter (Tackle Trap), and the PA pass (Belly Keep).

    The Jet and Rocket have been big for us, but pretty easy installs. Once they are in, I love to use Jet/Rocket motion with mostly Belly series plays, and then Trap and Waggle. It is a topic for debate, but I don't consider FB Trap with Jet motion or Belly with Rocket motion part of the Jet or Rocket series. Ten guys do the same thing that they do on the "regular" play. Just my opinion.

    I want to include option (Belly and Down)down the road, since the QB and motion back often carry out their option fakes. Why fake what you NEVER run?

    When they get to 8th grade, they'll get another counter off of Down, Down KP, a few more plays from the Power series, and more passing. The varsity only really adds more of a passing attack on top of that. I feel that if I teach the Buck and Belly series well, I've done my part. If I just do Buck OR Belly, then I feel like I've shortchanged them.

    Part of me wants to be a DW guy, and just run toss, trap, counter, and wedge VERY WELL . Part of me wants to run a thousand plays.

    Thank you Dave (RAIDERZ), Coach Wright, and Coach Klausing for the valuable input. I'd love to hear any other contributions! Heaven knows that I need help in the thinkin' department!
    There is no reason to run Buck, Jet AND Rocket at your level. In fact, I'd argue there is no reason to run them all at any level.

    Down and Belly provide you with off-tackle/power running (and the option provides an outside play). Jet and Rocket both provide an outside, fast, sweep. Buck provides a hybrid of both, a power sweep that can get outside as well.

    I'd run:
    Belly series with option
    Buck series

    or
    Belly series with keep
    Rocket/Jet series (pick on)

    Belly+Option gives you off-tackle along with an option play to hit the perimeter. The buck series provides the steady carries to your back and the sweep is always a solid play.

    Belly+ Sweep provides a power off tackle run along with the QB keep outside. The Rocket/Jet gives you the perimeter play with the ball in space.

    Both group provide you with the ability to hit the ball in any place. No need to add any more than that.

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coach S
    There is no reason to run Buck, Jet AND Rocket at your level. In fact, I'd argue there is no reason to run them all at any level.

    Down and Belly provide you with off-tackle/power running (and the option provides an outside play). Jet and Rocket both provide an outside, fast, sweep. Buck provides a hybrid of both, a power sweep that can get outside as well.

    I'd run:
    Belly series with option
    Buck series

    or
    Belly series with keep
    Rocket/Jet series (pick on)

    Belly+Option gives you off-tackle along with an option play to hit the perimeter. The buck series provides the steady carries to your back and the sweep is always a solid play.

    Belly+ Sweep provides a power off tackle run along with the QB keep outside. The Rocket/Jet gives you the perimeter play with the ball in space.

    Both group provide you with the ability to hit the ball in any place. No need to add any more than that.
    Coach S, I coach MS kids and we do this very thing. After reading Coach Wright's opinion on play selection over the past couple of years. I have really trimmed my playlists to look very much like what you suggest.

    Playlists for Middle School Team.
    1. Rocket - Our base play, what we will hang our hat on.
    2. Down - Our play to take advantage of a fast flowing OSLBer or a wide #1/ If we do not have a FB with ball skills that can run we will put a kid that block and run at FB and run power instead. The power has not been as good as down.
    3. Down Keep - Crack playside and lead with rocket back if he can block a corner. Otherwise stalk and let Rocket clean up. Best play though we only ran it 4 times last year. Averaged 12 yds
    3. Counter - Use power blocking. Wish the HS ran Sally
    4. Belly/Ice - We actually pretty much run ice, but did run belly one year.
    5. Sideboard - Jet, Jet Counter XX, Trap, and Midline. Actually get pretty good production but do not spend a great deal of time on these in practice.

    Passing Game
    1. Rocket Pass (Keep Flood)
    2. 3 Step Game, May add a couple of 5 step passes Smash and Mesh
    3. Screen Game mostly tunnell

    Our Playbook is taken from the high school but we tend to run mostly 80 Series. I am considered part of the HS coaches staff so I take direction from him although I do have the leeway to run what I want from his playbook.
    Last edited by sin86; 06-24-2009 at 01:08 PM.

  10. #10
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    Thanks to all who contributed! No one's advice was taken lightly. It was very thought provoking to hear coaches' reasons why they did this and did not do that. Gave me cause to reflect on my choices for series and play selection.

    I am looking forward to the upcoming season more than ever.
    wingtcoach.com
    @wingtcoachdon
    #wingtchat

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