Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Loaded Boxes 9+

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Ogden, UT
    Posts
    15

    Default Loaded Boxes 9+

    Something that I have begun to get irritated with are clinics and playbooks that describe Wing-T formations against vanilla 4-3s. Even 4-4s to a degree, but especially the 4-3. Yes, every single play we run looks amazing against a 4-3. They diagram the plays up and get all excited about how we outnumber everything and the angles are perfect; however, no defensive coach worth anything is going to stay in a base 4-3 against what we do. Maybe we'll catch some guys off guard in a non-conference game, or at a summer camp, but in region play I would be expecting anything but a vanilla 4-3. We've found that more often what we're seeing is - at a minimum - 5-3s, if not 5-4s, 3-5s with potential blitzers hopping all over the place, or even 6-4s or 5-5s. We've had teams put 1 CB in the game and replace him with a DT, or no safeties, 6 down linemen. You name it, we've seen all sorts of weird stuff.

    We've liked Buck Sweep because even against crazy boxes, we can still account for just about everything. However, I've often found myself asking the question of what is the best answer for these 9+ boxes. Here are the answers I've found, and I'm really curious what others are. First though, the answer that I hate, and maybe this a major flaw in my coaching. "Come out in an [Insert gun passing set] and air it out on them." I'm not dismissing passing as a solution, but the idea that we have basically an entirely different offense to combat the box loaders doesn't sit well with me. Within the framework of what we already do as a Traditional Delaware Wing-T team, what is the answer for box loaders?

    1. Rocket Toss/Jet Sweep.

    I'm a fan of this, and it's been our main answer. Everyone with their hand in the dirt inside the DE, or LBs crowding the line pretty much becomes useless, and if we make a couple blocks we're off to the races.

    2. Quick Pitch to the H

    This also is a good one. We've run it out of a formation where we bring our Wing into a Slot with the SE, and we've got a perfect angle for a crack on the OLB. They never seem to widen with our Wing-Slots because they pick up really quick we're just trying to get them to widen so Cross Block will have more room.

    3. Belly Keep Pass

    Traditional 5-3 especially. If the OLB is in really tight, a Keep Pass can be a good answer.

    4. 3-Step Game, Especially out of a Wing-T Spread look

    Not my favorite because generally 9 guys in box means 2 or more blitzers, plus tons of penetrating DL as well. It can be trickier to throw the ball in the loaded box situations than a lot of arm-chair quarterbacks assume. "This Coach is an idiot. 9 guys in the box and he's still running it."

    So, any other ideas. One I'm really curious to get an opinion on is "Don't allow the defense to consider lining up in a crazy box like that to begin with." I feel like by the nature of our offense being so heavily run oriented this is a difficult thing to do, but I'm curious if anyone has some perspective on that. Anyone have screen ideas that have worked for them? Formations? Shifts?

    What do you do to respond to the crazy stacked boxes that await us every fall? I'm fairly certain this topic must've been addressed at some point previous, and if someone knows feel free to just link me to the thread. I went back quite a ways and couldn't find one dealing with 9+ specifically.

  2. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jhanes45 View Post
    Something that I have begun to get irritated with are clinics and playbooks that describe Wing-T formations against vanilla 4-3s. Even 4-4s to a degree, but especially the 4-3. Yes, every single play we run looks amazing against a 4-3. They diagram the plays up and get all excited about how we outnumber everything and the angles are perfect; however, no defensive coach worth anything is going to stay in a base 4-3 against what we do. Maybe we'll catch some guys off guard in a non-conference game, or at a summer camp, but in region play I would be expecting anything but a vanilla 4-3. We've found that more often what we're seeing is - at a minimum - 5-3s, if not 5-4s, 3-5s with potential blitzers hopping all over the place, or even 6-4s or 5-5s. We've had teams put 1 CB in the game and replace him with a DT, or no safeties, 6 down linemen. You name it, we've seen all sorts of weird stuff.

    We've liked Buck Sweep because even against crazy boxes, we can still account for just about everything. However, I've often found myself asking the question of what is the best answer for these 9+ boxes. Here are the answers I've found, and I'm really curious what others are. First though, the answer that I hate, and maybe this a major flaw in my coaching. "Come out in an [Insert gun passing set] and air it out on them." I'm not dismissing passing as a solution, but the idea that we have basically an entirely different offense to combat the box loaders doesn't sit well with me. Within the framework of what we already do as a Traditional Delaware Wing-T team, what is the answer for box loaders?

    1. Rocket Toss/Jet Sweep.

    I'm a fan of this, and it's been our main answer. Everyone with their hand in the dirt inside the DE, or LBs crowding the line pretty much becomes useless, and if we make a couple blocks we're off to the races.

    2. Quick Pitch to the H

    This also is a good one. We've run it out of a formation where we bring our Wing into a Slot with the SE, and we've got a perfect angle for a crack on the OLB. They never seem to widen with our Wing-Slots because they pick up really quick we're just trying to get them to widen so Cross Block will have more room.

    3. Belly Keep Pass

    Traditional 5-3 especially. If the OLB is in really tight, a Keep Pass can be a good answer.

    4. 3-Step Game, Especially out of a Wing-T Spread look

    Not my favorite because generally 9 guys in box means 2 or more blitzers, plus tons of penetrating DL as well. It can be trickier to throw the ball in the loaded box situations than a lot of arm-chair quarterbacks assume. "This Coach is an idiot. 9 guys in the box and he's still running it."

    So, any other ideas. One I'm really curious to get an opinion on is "Don't allow the defense to consider lining up in a crazy box like that to begin with." I feel like by the nature of our offense being so heavily run oriented this is a difficult thing to do, but I'm curious if anyone has some perspective on that. Anyone have screen ideas that have worked for them? Formations? Shifts?

    What do you do to respond to the crazy stacked boxes that await us every fall? I'm fairly certain this topic must've been addressed at some point previous, and if someone knows feel free to just link me to the thread. I went back quite a ways and couldn't find one dealing with 9+ specifically.
    Rocket is by far our best 9 in the box/blitz beater. Power without a puller and Trap have been our best inside run plays vs. blitz heavy teams.


    However, we feel you have to throw occasionally to back them up.

    *Our best throw vs. an edge blitz is Belly Pass with Rocket motion behind it. Flats are often wide open.

    * Our best throw vs. safeties screaming down hill, is an All Go off Rocket action. We like to hit the seem.

    *Our best throw vs. ILB blitzes is a shallow cross.

  3. Default

    chúc chủ quán bán đắt !

  4. #4

    Default

    Match power with power. Take your SE out of the game and put in another OL.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coachmcg View Post
    match power with power. Take your se out of the game and put in another ol.
    Only works if you're better. Then it doesn't matter how they line up. "Jimmys & Joes"

  6. #6

    Default

    Waggle vertical

    Fake buck sweep - pull up.

    TE seam and WB take a down step and then run down sideline.

    Or COP tag. Corner over post. TE corner. WB run post under the corner.

    These two plays are money!!

  7. Default Power

    When we see 9 man boxes it just means we have to protect our inside gaps (LB run through) we love to run power and trap, again IF we get to our blocks it is going to be a big play. Rocket toss and quick pitch have been good vs these defenses as well as belly sweep, but protecting the inside gap while the qb has his back turned to the defense can be scary

  8. #8

    Default

    Guys, we installed Silkyice's Waggle Vertical two years ago and the results were fantastic vs. loaded boxes.

    I spoke at a little mini-clinic with some fellow Wing T'ers and this is a link to the presentation with some of the video that went with it.

    If you are a Buck Team at all I'd highly recommend this play.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=12b...SKez8COV-i9BP4

  9. #9

    Default

    The best thing we did vs. loaded boxes especially when there were Double A blitzes or all out gap blitzes was our Sprint Pkg with turn back protection. In Red/Blue we'd motion the wing to trips and block down with the slot. The OL would all punch with their outside arm on the outside # and turn back to block their inside gap. Slot down on the 5(C gap player), PST (punch the 5) has B, PSG has A, OC has off A etc. FB leads and has playside D. Our best pattern was a 14-12 out by the SE and an arrow to the flat by the motion back after taking 3 slide steps at B gap. With the wing blocking down this false keyed the OLB and often created a run with the DB chasing the Slide Back. The TE ran a drag @6-7 and was only viable if the QB had to pull up. Usually when the D commits to an all out blitz they are in Man...who has the QB?

    When we were in Twins Gun we'd use the motion/slide back to log the flank -C gap player and our best patterns from the Twins was a Curl/Out or Curl/Wheel with the offset FB again the lead blocker to the flat delayed so we often got a 3 level stretch out of it making it valid vs. Man or Zone.

    As far as our run plays we liked all those that afforded gap control either internally or externally...Power sweep, Jet/Rocket Sweep, Jet XX, Joker etc.
    If we had Power or Power Sweep called and there was a threat in all gaps we'd call Help to the man outside alerting him to block Down to the inside and where there was supposed to be Post/Lead Double team those would become single Gap blocks. We could still run Jet XX especially to the SE flank and we'd tell the SE to try and block the man covering the BC and maybe get 2 for 1. I personally would stay away from trap but XX and Joker were valid because they are Gap schemes and the HO occurs in the A/B gap area and the person responsible for off C on Defense is usually angling away from the play or is the contain defender.

    As always write or call with questions. I'm glad to help if I can.

    Rich Erdelyi

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •